TIME: Almanac 1993/TIME Almanac 1993.iso/time/020689/02068900.001

Text File | 1992-09-23 | 13.8 KB | 292 lines

                                                                                INTERVIEW, Page 66

He's No Johnny Carson


But DAVID LETTERMAN is tan and fit and the funniest man on
late-night television. Not bad for a guy who makes waffles on
the air and likes to roll grenades into the hen house

By Richard Zoglin


    When his late-night show debuted on NBC in 1982, David
Letterman was a young stand-up comic known mainly for
occasional stints as a Tonight show guest host. Now, as his own
show prepares to celebrate its seventh anniversary, Letterman
has established himself as the medium's most inventive and
influential comic. Like Saturday Night Live in the '70s, Late
Night with David Letterman has defined the cutting edge of TV
comedy in the '80s: hip, irreverent, self-parodying, both
scornful of and fascinated by the cliches of show business.
Sitting in his Rockefeller Center office recently after a
late-afternoon taping of his show, Letterman talked about his
career and his comedy with associate editor Richard Zoglin.

    Q. When you started this show, you were sort of TV's
avant-garde, and now you're almost the king of the mountain.
You're the guy people are trying to knock off, or copy. Does
that make you uncomfortable?

    A. Well, I think your assessment, while flattering, is
largely inaccurate. I wouldn't say we're the king of the
mountain. And I'm not sure we were ever avant-garde. I think
it's true that in the early days we felt like we had to
establish ourselves as being different, so maybe it was easier
for us to do odd things and take more chances. I think the grind
of doing a show every night makes you more inclined to say
"Well, we did that once before, we can do it again." A certain
kind of inertia takes over. But I think what has come over the
years is a more consistent spirit. We have more confidence now
in what we do. Whereas before it was like rolling a hand grenade
into a hen house -- you just waited to see where the feathers
would land. You know, that's not a bad idea, rolling a hand
grenade into . . . nah.

    Q. What things on the show really make you laugh?

    A. I like having a camera in different locations and being
able to talk with people there. And I always love it when the
"civilians" are able to do something that gets a huge laugh. I
like it sometimes when things just don't work, and you're
overwhelmed with this hopeless, giddy attitude. I liked a couple
of months ago when, for no reason, we just made waffles, as an
adjunct activity to the show. I liked having a show and then,
every few minutes, seeing if the waffles were done. I don't know
why exactly. When somebody came up with the idea -- "Well, we
could make waffles" -- you thought, "Why would we make waffles?"
But it's the Why-would-we-make-waffles? attitude that I think
made it fun to do.

    Q. In cases like that, you seem to be parodying the talk
show itself: This is how mundane we can get. We can make
waffles, and people will think it's entertainment. Are you
satirizing TV?

    A. It was never our intention to satirize or parody a talk
show. It's just that we have an hour of TV to do each night,
and it's got to be a talk show, so what can we do inside that
framework that would make us laugh? It's just goofy, silly
additional behavior. We never said, "What we want to do here is
construct a mirror of the American talk show and hold that up
to the viewer." We never really set out to show people a parody
of a talk show. I mean, it is a talk show.

    Q. You seem to have got better at doing interviews than at
the beginning.

    A. Well, you'd almost have to, wouldn't you?

    Q. Did you have a problem with your own performance?

    A. I still do. I didn't think I'd have a problem with
interviews because I had hosted the Tonight show, and there, if
you just sit and follow the notes that the staff has prepared
for you, you can do a pretty good interview. But for some
reason, on this show I had a lot of trouble. I think I just was
frightened that suddenly I had to perform as the host of my own
show. I was intimidated by guests. So it took a while to
overcome that. I remember at one point having a major shift of
attitude. After two or three years, it didn't seem that we could
do anything to improve the ratings. I can remember just feeling
this frustration and despair and exhaustion, and it was kind of
like -- screw it. At that point I think I was able to relax
more.

    Q. When you first became known as the hip talk show, many
guests started coming on with attitudes -- trying to top you or
do crazy things. Did that make you uncomfortable?

    A. Yeah. It still happens and still makes me uncomfortable.
I've always been a big fan of Jack Paar's. I had met him, and
he had invited me to his home a couple of times. I had always
found him to be really interesting and still very energetic and
dynamic, and I had wanted to get him on the show. But the
response was that he had been advised by friends not to go on
our show because we would make fun of him. I was saddened by
that.

    Q. Some viewers find you condescending, smug, even mean.

    A. I suppose I am all of those things, but we never invite
somebody on to demonstrate condescension -- or condensation. If
somebody comes on and is a bonehead and is loafing through an
interview, I resent that, and maybe I will then go after them.
But if you come on and are polite and well groomed and behave
yourself, then you've got nothing to worry about. I'm stunned
at the number of people in show business who come on and don't
seem to get that what we want from them is a performance, you
know, tell us three stories out of your life. Anybody who has
been on this planet 20 years and doesn't have three stories,
well, they should re-examine what they're doing.

    It used to trouble me that people thought our sole purpose
for being in business was to make fun of people. Unfortunately,
there is no joke that does not make fun of somebody. I try to
make it, as often as not, me or the show or somebody in our
little group. So if we do say something that looks like we're
making fun of somebody else, it's in the spirit of everything.
But some people don't buy that. I know that some people can't
stand me, and it troubles me because I think we're just trying
to do the funniest show we know how.

    Q. Any guests who have particularly annoyed you?

    A. The one that really upset me recently was Shirley
MacLaine. Shirley was too big a star to do a pre-interview. We
had no idea what she wanted to talk about. So the talent staff
put together a list of four or five questions based on research
material. Then she comes on the program and she brings with her
an attitude, which she mentioned early on: "I guess Cher was
right." (Cher once called Letterman an unprintable name on the
air.) I thought that was untoward, needless. And then, when I
would ask her the questions, about her past lives or about her
book or about her film -- projects that she had devoted no small
measure of time and effort to -- she just couldn't be bothered.
So I thought to myself: Why are you on this show, lady? There
was not a gun at this woman's head. I have less and less
patience for that kind of behavior.

    Q. Your interplay with bandleader Paul Shaffer has become
a major part of the show. Are you good friends?

    A. I have a great deal of respect for Paul, and if he
decided to quit the show, I don't know that I would continue
without him. We're close; we chat every day before the show and
after the show. We've been to dinner many times, and he's been
to my house many times. I like him, and I think he's the best
at what he does. But we're not best friends. I think it would
be odd for me and Paul to be best friends away from the show and
then have any kind of acceptable relationship on the show.

    By the way, this is his last night. I caught him using my
comb, so we had to let him go.

    Q. Like Johnny Carson, you're considered a remote
personality on TV. And yet you do talk about yourself a lot --
your problems getting cable or driving in from Connecticut or
whatever. How -much of yourself do you think you reveal on the
air?

    A. I like talking about things that happen in my life if I
think I can make me the butt of the joke. But I'm not crazy
about actually talking about real things in my life: the women
in my life, or my own political feelings and beliefs, limited
as they are. If something funny happens in the supermarket, I
like trying to talk about that. Because I think -- and this may
be completely misguided -- if I were at home watching a show,
I'd like to hear about Johnny Carson's getting a flat tire. But
I don't want to start explaining in great detail what makes me
happy, what makes me sad, that kind of crap.

    Q. Speaking of things you won't discuss on the show, are
you dating much?

    A. As much as I need to. That sounds horrible, doesn't it?
(Former head writer) Merrill Markoe and I lived together for a
long, long time. She is largely responsible for the success of
the show, many of her ideas are mainstays, and she is one of the
most important people in my life, ever. I won't give you the
gory details, but it seems to have come to a halt.

    Q. But you're not spending your nights alone?

    A. I'm not leading a monastic existence.

    Q. What movies and comedians did you like growing up in
Indiana?

    A. When I was a kid I never really went to movies. In my
house, going to movies was pretty much equated with as big a
waste of time as you could come by as a human.  When I got to
an age where I could appreciate comedians, it was guys like
Jonathan Winters; he used to really make me laugh hard. At about
16 or 17, on Friday nights I could stay up late and watch the
Steve Allen Show. And sometimes after school I used to watch Who
Do You Trust? with Johnny Carson.

    Q. You began your career in local TV. Did you enjoy that?

    A. It was a great time. My first television job was while
I was still in college, and I was hired against all odds by a
station in Indianapolis. I started as a voice-over announcer
doing station identifications. Then gradually, through vacation
schedules and attrition, I got to do morning news once; got to
host a kids' show once; ended up doing the weather and a
late-night movie show. You just do everything you can. It was
great fun because there was no pressure. I could pretty much do
whatever I wanted, and nobody cared because I was always the
fill-in guy. What you learn there is that television is the same
at that level and at this level. In fact, here maybe a little
lower.

    Q. Do you miss doing stand-up comedy?

    A. I don't think I was a good stand-up comedian. I could do
the job. I learned the skills of making a roomful of drunks
laugh. But I never really enjoyed it. I always felt like I was
not enough. To me, when you go see a comic, you want to see a
guy like (slapstick comedian) Gallagher. You want to see lights
and props and balloons and fruit being smashed. You want to see
something because you're spending something like 20 to 25 bucks.
They came to see me, and all I really had was 30 minutes of
jokes.

    Q. Your first network TV job was on Mary Tyler Moore's
short-lived variety show. Was that a good experience?

    A. At the time it was the best experience and the worst
experience I had had. I was living in one room on Sunset
Boulevard, driving a '73 pickup truck. I'd get in my truck and
drive to work every day -- which was Television City. In
Hollywood! And one of my co-workers was Mary Tyler Moore! It was
great, the American show-biz dream come true. It was also
difficult because in each show there was a big dance number, and
every Tuesday the wardrobe people would come around and fit you
for, like, a Peter Pan suit to wear in the number. I always
described it as: What's wrong with this picture? Well, Letterman
has no business being there with Mary Tyler Moore, that's what's
wrong with this picture.

    Q. Would you like to do movies?

    A. I have finally signed a deal with the Disney people. In
actuality the deal is: if you ever want to do a movie, you'll
do it for us. I have no ideas. But I just feel it's sort of an
inevitability that one day I'll do a really bad movie.

    Q. If NBC asked you to take over as host of the Tonight
show when Johnny Carson retires, would you say yes?

    A. I guess of course I would. But I think ultimately I
would be happy just to be considered.

    Q. You seem to really look up to Carson. Why?

    A. Many reasons. First of all, personally, if it had not
been for the Tonight show and Johnny Carson, I wouldn't have a
car -- probably wouldn't have shoes. But the real reason I look
up to the guy is the longer I do this, the more respect I have
for him. Show me somebody else in the history of television who
has not only survived but also dominated for a quarter of a
century. I think if you don't have respect for that, there's
something wrong with you.

    And he still makes me laugh. In fact, I don't even watch
the Tonight show because how good he is makes me nervous and
insecure. I look at that show, and I say to myself, "Yeah, see,
you're no Johnny Carson."

    Q. What else do you want to do with your life?

    A. Well, this is it. All I ever wanted to do is to have a
television show. And I've got one. So from that standpoint I
feel like I've succeeded. I also think the Tonight show is the
only other show I would do. I think once this show is canceled
or once I get fired, you'll never see me again in another TV
show of my own. It's just too much work, too heartbreaking, and
if you've done it once, congratulations.

    At some point during the article can you mention that I'm
looking tan and well rested? I know I'm not, but I always think
that makes for a real successful piece.